CNC Turning
CNC Turning:
Parts can be completely turned or certain features can be left for your to complete (for barrel blank boring only or keg blanks please see the appropriate articles).
Barrels (the part you blow into): Boring the barrel, turning the OD profile/shape and band tenon if applicable, and deburring sharp edges (unless requested to be left sharp).
Kegs (inserts/stoppers/pins, etc... the part that makes the noise): Turning the keg tenon and shape, tone channel drilled (may be left short for you to finish to depth, finished to depth with your specified drill point, or left un-drilled), back bored, and cut off to length. Milling is not included with turning costs (for milling information please see Tone board Milling).
Turning Costs (material cost not included): Generally speaking, the machining price range is roughly $5.50 to $10.00 per part (duck and goose barrels and goose kegs are usually on the lower end of the range, and Arkansas style duck kegs that are drilled and back bored closer to $7.00-10.00). So much depends on the details that it is tough to do much in the way of price estimating without seeing the actual part. So far, in our experience, the average machining cost for a duck or goose barrel or goose keg has been ≈$5.50 - $6.50 per part. Duck kegs with the tone channel drilled .050"short, using our "double super secret probation" method and a tapered back bore no longer than 1.8" have averaged ≈ $8.00 - $9.00 per part.
Part length - Barrels: The longest standard part we can handle for barrels is 3.300" anything beyond that will require some head scratching and creativity.
Part Length - Inserts: Tenon portion of the kegs over 2.300" in length (not entire part length - just the turned tenon) can get tricky. We have done some long parts, but it was complicated and time consuming and certain operations were not possible due to length. It is STRONGLY ADVISED to keep your tenon at 2.300" or shorter - but if that can not be avoided, touch base with us and will see what can be done!
Price Estimates: We can not give an accurate quote without seeing the part you are wanting duplicated. You will need to either send a CAD drawing (.DXF or .DWG file that can be opened by AutoCAD 2004), a spec drawing/print, or mail us the sample part/prototype to inspect. In some instances where the bore is very simple, it may be possible to rough quote the part from a picture provided the bore dimensions and major measurements (length and diameter in major locations) can be described and included in the email accompanying the the picture.
Setup Fees: $50.00-$150.00 per part or $100.00-$300.00 per call depending on complexity of the shape. A call with extra decorative aspects, multiple and complicated radii, or complex bore configurations may be more, and a part that is very simple may be less. This will be determined and quoted prior to any work being started. The setup fee must be paid prior to beginning work on the CAD file and Programming. The setup fee is a one time expense per part. Subsequent orders of the same parts do not incur the setup fee. You may supply your own DWG file or DXF file – but it must be able to be opened in AutoCAD 2004 or earlier .DWG version 2000-2004 or .DXF version R12. If you chose to do this, the Setup Fee would be reduced approximately $25.00 to $75.00 per part (see note below to qualify for discount on setup fee).
(NOTE) Setup Fee Discount for providing CAD files: To be eligible for the setup fee discount, there are some guidelines for the CAD files that must be followed: 1.) File format must be in .DWG or .DXF file format, and formatted to be opened in AutoCAD 2004 or OLDER. 2.) The drawings must be TO SCALE ie. 1:1 - in 2D wire frame in INCHES 3.) The centerline of the part must be along the X axis, and the left side of the part starting at X0. For example on a barrel with a .625" bore, the center line is the center of the bore, so all drawn lines would be either above, below, or both, of the X axis at Y0, So the bore would be represented by a line at Y.3125 and Y-.3125 and the shape would be above or below those two lines. 4.) One part per CAD file. If you are having two parts made, there will need to be two files, one for each part.
The point of all of this is to reduce the time it takes to manipulate the file into the format that we use to write our programs. Basically, if the program be written directly from the drawing, it qualifies for the Setup Fee Discount, if not, there will be very little discount, if any, depending on the amount of work to get it properly laid out for our methods. If you have any questions feel free to contact us.
Materials: The only materials we currently machine are metals and plastics** – NO WOOD. Generally, this fits with what most people would prefer to do anyway – as acrylic and Delrin are the main choices of materials for calls to be run on a CNC. It is preferred to have acrylic in 4' sticks. Shorter sticks may be sent but will result in a higher per part charge due to the extra work created. Current maximum capacity of the CNC lathe is up to 1.600" diameter material. We can handle other sized material for parts, but there may be an additional per piece charge if the material is of a size that is out of the normal range for the part or in pre-cut blanks. We can provide material for you or you may order your own and have it drop shipped to us. Most suppliers will drop ship directly to us (most common vendor is Deadshot Polymers or Spartech through various distributors like Delvie's Plastics or Midland Plastics), which will save on a second round of shipping costs. If you order material and have it drop-shipped to us PLEASE use your name as the PO# or in the shipping name so that we can identify the materials and match them to the correct job. If you require that we supply the material, you will be required to supply us with the correct color number(s)/names for the manufacturer you wish to use (Deadshot or Spartech/Delvie's color chart), order minimum quantities of 4 feet per color, and payment for the material must be made prior to ordering of the material. WE DO NOT MARK UP MATERIAL. We charge the same prices as listed on the seller's website. If you want to know material costs, just take a look at Deadshot's or Delvie's website.
For quoting purposes, if you do not supply us with a prototype to quote from, and are going to email and ask us to estimate for you anyway - despite the info above - we cant even begin to guess material costs if you don't tell us what diameter rod will need to be used, what colors, and how many sticks.
** Various plastic materials other than Acetal and Acrylic may be possible but each material will be discussed at the time of inquiry. For standard pricing to apply - the material MUST BE round, cylindrical (not square, tapered or fluctuation in diameters along the length) and no larger than 1.600" in diameter. Any piece of material that is not 4-foot long is subjected to additional costs - the shorter the blank the higher the additional cost.
Turnaround Time: Oh boy... that has become a tough one! It really depends on so many uncontrollable things that we have to look at that at the time we start discussing an estimate. Probably the absolute best thing you can do, to save us both time and unnecessary work is: If you have a deadline that you need the parts by - tell us that right away! That way, if we know we can't possibly meet that need, we can tell you right off the bat.
Price Quotes: Price quotes are usually best done when we have the actual prototype in hand, and don’t have to make any assumptions. With enough specific information, we can try to quote from a picture or schematic sent via e-mail. Price quotes are good only for the current batch of parts. Later runs are subject to change due to many variables, such as tooling costs, utility costs, political climate :P, etc. You will receive a new quote each time you request a new batch of parts. For the most part, there shouldn’t be much change in price.
Minimum Quantities: Minimum run is THREE FULL 4-FOOT STICKS cut into ONE SPECIFIC PART. If you have two parts (say a keg and a barrel) and you want one color insert and one color barrel, then the minimum would be Six sticks total, three sticks for each part in corresponding colors.
We can in some instances do partial stick runs but there is an additional fee based on the length of sticks and number of parts. Please remember, the cost benefit of CNC work comes from running quantities. Small quantity work equates to expensive parts.
Discounts: As a general rule, there are no discounts on WEBFoot CNC services on small runs. Large quantity runs (starting around ≈10 sticks of 4' material being cut into a single part in a single run), are eligable for quantity discounts.
Prototypes and Design: If you are designing your call in a CAD system please take note of the minimum order quantity per part (three 4 foot sticks worth of each part). If you require a single prototype of your part prior to having larger quantities made, the per part cost of the initial prototype will be much higher than the batch of parts. One could easily see $250-$600 for a prototype call (we charge by the hour so we can not be exact on the price of a prototype until we have completed it - Shop rate is $65.00/hr). A lot of the added cost is due to the added time for tear down and setup of the machine for that one specific part.
Things that help reduce costs: We know as well as anyone that money is tight, so anything to help reduce the time needed to complete the project reduces the costs. Here are some things that help us help you, save money.
If your part has any dimensions that are difficult to measure, and are using a special tool to make that feature, let us know about that tool.
If you are designing a call specifically intended as a price point call or cost is of main concern keep that in mind as you add aesthetic features to the call. Tight curves, narrow or sharp grooves, undercuts, mouth pieces that are radiused into the bore rather than chamfered, complex bores, or very thin walled calls can all cause issues and added expense in the turning process. If you have questions about ideas you are thinking about, feel free to send us a picture or drawing and we will do our best to help you avoid features that make the part more expensive to machine.
Odd ball sizes can cause problems. Smaller than usual bores can create issues and requirements for different or new tools, which adds to the cost of making the parts. Any bore under .610" will create some challenges (in terms of larger bores), or tone channel bores that are not 1/4", 15/64", or #1 wire drill size.
Sharp edges - for example some barrels and kegs are designed to look as though they are one piece, and the keg comes to a sharp point where the butting face of the keg contacts the barrel. This sharp edge is not only dangerous when it comes off the machine, but it is also very susceptible to chipping when being cut or handled. The cut must be slowed down and taken in small increments. This increases the time it takes, in turn, increasing the cost. Also, we will not be able to do polishing on any parts that require sharp corners.
Remember, something simple on a wood lathe can very easily be hugely difficult on a CNC, just as something that is very difficult on a wood lathe may be very simple on a CNC. Think about each feature as you cut it on the wood lathe. If you can not make it without changing the orientation of the tool to the work, it could be difficult on the CNC (think in terms of trying to make an under cut or radius'ing of the mouth piece).
Alright... thats enough for today class... Its recess time! :D